Latest Update:
OK, after the disclaimer I wrote below on the original, original post way below, I decided to take down the post, even with the disclaimer. I felt like I was putting confusion out there and while I completely believe in asking questions and not knowing answers, it just didn’t feel right. Mostly because the more I thought about it, the more I could not agree with Justin’s interpretation of Scriptures. Specifically, it came down to the meaning of verses in Romans and Corinthians and more importantly, marriage and how that should look. I went back and finally read the other side of the argument from Ron and I have to say that it was spot-on to the way I am feeling. Yes, homosexuality is a reality but acting out is a sin and that marriage is a picture of Christ and the church and meant for a woman and man. I beg you to read both sides. I can not handle when people blindly accept a truth just because they don’t care to learn about the other side. Given that, I simply could not find peace about Justin’s side and felt like it took a lot of flimsy arguments to let homosexual relationships be acceptable. On the other hand, Ron looks at Biblical history and Christianity as a whole and honestly, a whole lot of common sense. So, with lots of struggling, I am still back to my original stance that I can not support gay marriages (and of course any sort of sexual activity outside of marriage).
To those that are not Christians, feel free to do whatever you want. I don’t expect you to live by God’s law when you have no interest in following Christ. I still love you and God does too, though. For the record though, I think you’re missing out. God rocks pretty hard. For those that are Christians and struggle with this, I come to this conclusion with love and a hurting heart. I rest my hope in the fact that God knows best and that He will not give us any temptations from which we can not find a way out.
Everything below is the post I took down which also had a disclaimer about the ORIGINAL post I wrote:
I feel the need to preface this and say I did not mean to publish this. Well I did and then I didn’t. I thought I had moved it to a draft stage but then it ignored that and published at it’s scheduled time. I still am not settled on this issue. The more I wrestle with it the more I can not feel peaceful that practicing is not a sin, particularly after rereading the Corinthians passage. Still, there are other valid points in here that are worth the read.
Here is the original post:
If you aren’t around the Christian and/or gay circles you probably haven’t seen this interview with a gay Christian. I’ve written about my viewpoint on same sex marriages before and I just have to say my viewpoint is changing. It’s been 7 years since I posted that. I’ve met people, mentored people and done a lot more reading.
And here’s the thing. I’m more convinced than ever that homosexual tendencies are not simply a choice. Justin and others who are Christians willed themselves to not have these tendencies and could not. Some of these I think could be caused by emotional and relational trauma but reality is reality. They are attracted to the same sex and even when willed they can not stop.
So the question is what to do with that?
Justin called this decision Side A and Side B. He believes in a monogamous, Christ-centered same-sex relationship. The other side believes the person should be celibate.
I have no idea what I believe anymore.
I err on the side of celibacy. I’ll be honest and say I have a super hard time believing that Christ-centered same-sex relationships exist but you know, that doesn’t mean much. Up until as recently as a week ago I would have said acting out on those desires was sinful. After reading the interview and further on his site, I can follow his logic. I’m just not sure if I follow that logic and can make the same conclusions from Scripture. The point of the matter is it’s all interpretation.
But I do know what I’m pretty sure my mind is turning about…whether government should restrict same-sex marriages. IF there are (and there are) people out there like Justin that have whole-heartedly searched God’s word and still do believe that homosexuality is ok then who am I to stop them from marrying? What if their interpretation is right and I’m wrong? I don’t know that I’ll ever push for it and be able to say that practicing homosexuality is ok but that is between them and God.
Sarah Mae published her thoughts on Justin’s interview and I love that she is wrestling with this too. And my comment to her was this: Christians need to figure out what we believe and in a much more loving way than we have to date. The face of homosexuality has changed a great deal in the last decade or two and it’s not something that is just behind doors now. I figure my views will change, maybe even as soon as I publish this, but one thing isn’t changing. These people need LOVED. Period. The hate has to stop. Even if homosexuality IS a sin, we don’t turn people away that are alcoholics or drug addicts or obese or cruel or whatever their struggling sin might be.
Hating them is only turning them away from the one thing you’re wanting them to follow.
Not sure how your friend searched scripture and missed this one:
“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Cor 6:9-11).
The problem is that this person may not be saved. To be saved one must repent, and trust in the savior. To repent means to turn away from sin. It sounds like your friend is still living in it.
When you say someone is “born gay” – that is true to an extent, we are ALL born sinners. I equate it to drug and alcohol addiction. No one chooses to be an addict, they end up there by becoming addicted to the feeling. I think homosexuality is the same.
http://youtu.be/TDgKxbL2jq4 check out this video.
I pray you are not deceived.
I completely agree and have often equated it with the same thing which is why I currently lean on the side of celibacy.
Thank you for posting that Scripture. It reinforces my original views.
Amy, I love this. Well said, and bravo. I’m a big gay rights supporter – 100% in favor of equal marriage rights- and I couldn’t agree with you more that the hate has to stop. *We don’t all have to see eye to eye and agree on the issue* but we do have to be respectful and love one another. Thanks for writing such a thoughtful piece!
My comment was left on the original post but the sentiment behind it still stands. You have clearly given a lot of thought to your point of view and present it respectfully. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this subject BUT I have a lot of respect for the consideration you gave the topic. You obviously thought a lot about it, and that’s all anyone can ask- that people take the time to really consider their feelings and their beliefs, and that they have respectful discussions.
Thank you for taking the time to read and comment both times 🙂 Glad we can still be friends even though we may not agree on topics like these.
Following the bible seems to be a tricky thing these days. The world runs into many issues because of interpretation. One person reads a scripture one way and someone reads it different. So who is right in their thinking? Without the lord here on earth to explain just what is meant by his words, we end up with a ton of guessing. I once had a gay man explain it to me like this. He asked ” do you ever think about being straight? Do you force yourself not to look at guys or is it something that just happens?” He went on to say that he never thinks about it but he feels pulled towards men. He never made the choice of being gay. Why would anyone want to choose to be attacked, like so many are? It’s a very tough subject many people deal with daily.
Tommy, I agree on several accounts. The thing is, there is such a thing as truth and only one interpretation can be right so yes, without the Lord to either reveal it or tell us all at once so we all agree who He is actually revealing it to. I’m sure we all believe we are right when we are led to one interpretation. None of us know for 100% sure. However, that doesn’t give us an excuse NOT to try to find answers.
And yes, I definitely believe a person can naturally feel attracted to the same sex. I also feel naturally inclined to eat chocolate cake all day 🙂 I don’t mean to make light of it but I mean to say just because we have a natural inclination towards something doesn’t mean it’s right. In fact, the whole premise of what Scripture says is all of our tendencies are toward evil. So I may naturally be impatient but that doesn’t mean I have a right to be an impatient person. The great thing about being a Christian is the process of sanctification. We can get improve. But Paul also says there are certain things that will be a thorn in our side and may never leave us. As awesome as Paul was he never got rid of his. For some people, homosexuality just might be their thorn.
And yes, it’s a very tough subject and my heart goes out to those that struggle with this daily.
OK. Finally weighing in with you as I have kept silent for a few days on this subject and prayed for you as I knew you have been struggling with your thoughts on it. I believe God very clearly states His truth on the matter and if you believe the word of God is true then you know He very cleary says it’s sin and that He doesn’t honor it as marriage (1 Corinthians). If one doesn’t believe the word of God is true then that’s an eternally much bigger issue. At the same time, He is the only Righteous Judge and only calls us to love. I believe He expects us, as Christians to act in wisdom (as in when it comes to voting, counseling someone, teaching, speaking,etc.)but always, always in love. My own sins are no less heinous. His blood atoned for all of mine and the homosexual’s and just as He can set me free, He is big enough, strong enough, powerful enough to set free one held captive by homosexuality. To think otherwise, is limiting the power of God. So can one be homosexual and Christian? Here’s the thing, He calls me take up my cross daily, dying to myself, and follow Him. Yes, my salvation is a one time deal and God knows my heart on that. Satan can’t take that from me, but if I am not daily sacrificing my own fleshly desires and asking Him what He wants of me then I am not His disciple. I’m not following Him. David Platt is supposed to speak on this issue as part of the “Secret Church” simulcast study on Nov. 4. I am interested to hear his biblical answers on this subject.
Thanks for your reply. I think I got tripped up with our translation and interpretation and assumptions we have always made. If you go read the articles, Justin interprets based on the Greek words, cultural references and such that it may not translate specifically to how it translates to English and how we see it as an obvious sin. For example, they would translate our word homosexuality to specifically reference a man and a young boy and not necessarily two men. BUT I put that out there to say that I DON’T think that’s how we should interpret it. That being said when you put it all together, I think it IS obvious that it is a sin and his translation of it is too weak to accept. That said, yes, I do think it’s clear 🙂
I would love to hear David’s thoughts as well.
I did read both articles and Sarah Mae’s comments before I decided to weigh in. I personally feel Justin is attempting to justify sin and I think as Christians we are having a hard time hating the sin and loving the sinner at the same time (we seem to be on one side of the spectrum or the other when God actually does both). I also think we often have a tendency to attempt to twist God’s word to suit us on a whole host of things. No matter the subject, He promises that if we seek Him, we will find Him. The question is, do we really want to know Him or are we like children who want to disobey but avoid consequence? That all being said, I am not one to say who is Christian and who is not. Only He can know the heart of man. And really, it doesn’t matter what I think. I feel like Satan would love for Christians to spend all of our time and energy arguing these kind of issues rather than doing what we’re called to do.
On another note, praying for you this weekend that you’ll do exactly what He wants you to and that He will maximize your time. Can’t wait to hear what He had planned for your weekend instead of WOF!
Yes Dani I walked away (after some time) feeling like he was trying to justify a sin instead of stepping back and seeing what makes logical sense.
Amy, as you know this subject is close to my heart because of a very special person in my life that struggles with this. Because I have known this person since birth, I cannot agree that this was a choice. Never, in her whole life, has she been any different than now…and a 5 year old had no choice about sexual orientation. I cannot imagine a God that expected His child to suffer and struggle the way I have seen her struggle the last 5 years. I am not going to pull out Bible verses that “support” my thoughts or feelings, because if I know you, you have read everything that is available. I just think, that you and I both know and love this person…and how could she be wrong??
Steph, she is the reason this has weighed so heavily on me and I have had this discussion more times than I can count with her. She knows where I stand. Just like I mentioned to Tommy, her attraction and feelings are not sinful but what she does with them.
…and not implying she herself does anything with them, just saying anyone in general
I am going to weigh in as well, even though I try to stay away from this topic. I had a very dear co worker of mine that was gay, and I knew for years before he told me. My response to him, “I don’t have to like what you do because with me being a Christian it is a sin, but what kind of Christian would I be if I treated you any differently.” I never treated him any differently and we became better friends after that. But I struggle with the being born that way, I believe that there are circumstances in ones life that made them that way. I am a sinner just like they are a sinner, so I don’t think that I need to treat them like I am better. The best way to show them Jesus is to show them love. Not saying that I am going to shove it down their throat, but I am not going to apologize for my beliefs.
I think Christian’s get a bad rap because of how many times we show “hate” instead of love. Just like the saying “Hate the sin, love the sinner” I believe we (Christians) need to really take that saying to heart sometimes.
Jill I completely agree. I think it’s difficult though for some to separate the sin from the person. To them it is their identity and my default if we hate the sin we are hating them. Not true, but I think that’s where the breakdown happens sometimes.
Thx for your input! I know you are an awesome friend to anyone!!
Sin is sin no if, and, or buts about it. IF GOD CALLS IT SIN, it is SIN. Love the person, hate the Sin. Romans 12:2 Be not transformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing for your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable, and perfect will of God.